sort order problems

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: ansteyfamily
         

Hi,

 

I have two sorting problems in office 2003:

 

1. Shin and Sin sort as if they were the same character. How can sin be forced to come before shin?

 

2. When Office 2003 sorts the SBL Hebrew font, I am not getting the desired result, which is that compound words are treated like hyphenated words. So Word sorts as follows:

 

Lemma Unicode
חֲצַר־�ַדָּר
חֲצַר עֵינָן
חֲצַר ש�וּעָל
חֲצַר סוּסָה
חֶצְרֹו
חֶצְרֹון

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: ansteyfamily
         

I'll resend with proper html tags to show the sbl font. 

 

Hi,

 

I have two sorting problems in office 2003:

 

1. Shin and Sin sort as if they were the same character. How can sin be forced to come before shin?

 

2. When Office 2003 sorts the SBL Hebrew font, I am not getting the desired result, which is that compound words are treated like hyphenated words. So Word sorts as follows:

 

 

Lemma Unicode
חֲצַר־�ַדָּר
חֲצַר עֵינָן
חֲצַר ש�וּעָל
חֲצַר סוּסָה
חֶצְרֹו
חֶצְרֹון

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter Kirk
         
On 29/03/2004 17:23, ansteyfamily wrote:

>    New Message on SBL Fonts
>
>
>     *sort order problems*
>    
>
>     *Reply*
>    
>        
>          *Reply to Sender*
>    
>       *Recommend*
>    
>        Message 2 in Discussion
>
>     From: ansteyfamily
>    
>
>     I'll resend with proper html tags to show the sbl font.
>      
>     Hi,
>      
>     I have two sorting problems in office 2003:
>      
>     1. Shin and Sin sort as if they were the same character. How can
>     sin be forced to come before shin?
>      
>     2. When Office 2003 sorts the SBL Hebrew font, I am not getting
>     the desired result, which is that compound words are treated like
>     hyphenated words. So Word sorts as follows:
>      
>      
>
>     *Lemma Unicode*
>
>    
>
>     ??
>
>     ?? ?
>
>     ??
>
>     ?
>
>     ??
>
>     But the standard order for dictionaries/indices is:
>
>     *Lemma Unicode*
>
>    
>
>     ?
>
>     ??
>
>     ??
>
>     ?? ?
>
>     ??
>
>     How can I achieve this for a lexicon? The only hack I have worked
>     out is to use an endash and then turn its colour to white.
>
>     Any ideas?
>
>      
>
>     Regards,
>
>     Matthew Anstey
>
>      
>

This is not a font issue, but an issue of how Office 2003 processes
Unicode Hebrew text. Probably it sorts it according to the Unicode
default collation algorithm, or something similar. For Hebrew
characters, this default is the order used in modern Hebrew, in which
sin and shin are sorted together at the top level, with the different
dots making a second level distinction only. (This is also the order
used for 19th century dictionaries of biblical Hebrew e.g. Strongs,
Davidson).

Office 2003 may somewhere allow you to tailor the sort ordering. If not,
you will have to calculate your own sort key, put it in a hidden column,
and sort on that. That is easy to do in Access and Excel; it is possible
but not so straightforward in Word tables.

--
Peter Kirk
peter@qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/


         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         

As Peter notes, this is an application issue. I don't think Microsoft Office uses the Unicode default collation algorithm, but I am pretty sure that whatever collation algorithm they do use for Hebrew is going to be based on modern Hebrew sort orders. Presumably, it would be possible to define a specifically Biblical Hebrew sorting algorithm, but I'm not sure if this is something that is easily customised in Office or something that you would need to request that MS add in future.

         

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