Hebrew on MacOSX?

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Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Hello new friends. I just obtained this SBL Hebrew font to install on my MacOSX 10.3.5 and it produces garbage characters. I have a Stuttgart Bible which did open in Hebraica in OS 9 and now also is full of errors. All advice about how to make Hebrew work in OSX welcome. THANKS!

(Homeopathic health advice given outside the group in return if required).

I naver joined a chat group before.
         

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Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Oh and I am using Office 2004
         

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Posted by: Pim_12
         
Hi,

"Medorrhinum1" wrote:
> I just obtained this SBL Hebrew font to install on my MacOSX
> 10.3.5 and it produces garbage characters.

You need an OpenType-capable word processor like Mellel v.1.8.1 (there is a trial version available, but at US$39 for the full version, with free updates for three years, you cannot go wrong). Office/Word 2004 for Mac OS X still does not do Hebrew--or Arabic, Farsi, or any other BiDirectional script..

> I have a Stuttgart Bible which did open in Hebraica in OS 9
> and now also is full of errors. All advice about how to make
> Hebrew work in OSX welcome.

Your Stuttgart Bible probably has "Hebraica" encoding, which is pre-Unicode. I do not think you can get this to work without extensive data conversion. Contact the developer and ask them if they have a proper Unicode version available, and if it will work on Mac OS X.

HTH,

Pim
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: karyn_t
         
Using Word for Mac 2004 I am able to use SBL Hebrew in a right to left manner with the Hebrew QWERTY (or the regular Hebrew) language selected in my language preferences. However, the mapping is completely different than what is on the SBL site (and in the manual) and the nikud are not lining up correctly.

I can get Lucida Grande to work Right to Left with nikud lining up OK, but I haven't figured out the keyboard mapping for everything yet.

I have Mellel (just got it) and have not been able to get SBL Hebrew to work correctly with that program. I think I am confused about which language setting to have while using the program.

Any help with getting SBL Hebrew to work with Mellel or keyboard mapping guides for the above situations would be greatly appreciated.

Karyn
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Phew, thanks Karyn, I am glad I am not the only one.
I have ordered Mellel. I assumed it would come with fonts and a Hebrew Bible
text.

I had been using the Stuttgart text from Linguists Software with OS9, and
for years with 7 or 8 etc.

Now I also have OSX 10.3.5 and Office 2004.

What is Lucida Grande, is that a Hebrew Font?
Anyone tried a new version of Nisus?

It was suggested I try a SIL font and that produced garbage characters.

I am going to go back to OS9 until mellel arrives. I have sent messages to
various friends and family in Israel with no constructive help so far.
Apple.com has files from 1996! Nothing for OSX.

Bye for now, Fran


www.homeopathy-soh.org






         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         
I'm not currently aware of any Unicode Biblical Hebrew keyboard drivers for the Mac, but I will look into what will be necessary to produce one that matches the Windows driver we developed for SBL. Support for OpenType layout for Hebrew has only just arrived on the Mac, with Mellel, so there is still support work to be done on that platform. I do know some people who have been successfully using SBL Hebrew in Mellel, so it is possible. I will contact one of them and see if I can get him to provide a quick tutorial.

The situation with Office 2004 on the Mac is a complicated: this version of Office supports Unicode encoding and bidirectional text, so it should permit encoding of Hebrew text and correct right-to-left layout. However, it does not support OpenType Layout, so accurate nikudot and te'amim positioning will not work. There is no system level support for OTL on the Mac as there is on Windows, so those applications that do support it must do so internally. For Hebrew, these are currently limited to Mellel and the Middle East versions of Adobe's InDesign, Photoshop and Illustrator programs. However, note that the current versions of the Adobe programs do not handle contextual mark positioning, so although the positioning of nikudot and te'amim is better in these apps than in most others on the Mac it is not always perfect when vowels and accents are both applied.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Not sure if that last reply went to the list or the sender as this is all
new to me

An afterthought
The cantillation marks ARE needed as we use them for preparing for chanting
in Synagogue. How odd that Apple is so behind with this after having done
its foreign language kit for OS9.

Thanks again
Fran
--
Francis Treuherz MA RSHom FSHom
Registered Homeopath
2 Exeter Road
London NW2 4SP

+44(0) 208 450 6564 Phone & Fax
+44(0) 795 845 9446 Mobile

fran@gn.apc.org
www.homeopathyhelpline.com

Hon Secretary, Society of Homeopaths
f.treuherz@homeopathy-soh.org
www.homeopathy-soh.org






         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
This is very helpful. I wish I understood the terminology you use. As far as
I can see you are saying that the Stuttgart Bible Text is not usable in OSX
with MSWord. The technical reason is beyond my brain. Hebraica font is only
partially legible, all other Hebrew fonts are full of garbage.

I have ordered Mellel. I assume that this will come with a version of the
Masoretic Bible text but I do not know which one but I hope it will suffice
for undergraduate use in classical Hebrew studies which is what my wife
teaches.

I have for the moment re installed Office 1998 (not even 2001) onto her
PowerBook which will work fine with OS9 Classic, but to have 2 systems going
at once is bizarre.

It is amazing that Microsoft have not activated Hebrew on their programs. I
wonder if Nisus will do it?

And a huge thank you for your clearly professional and impartial advice.

--
Francis Treuherz MA RSHom FSHom
Registered Homeopath
2 Exeter Road
London NW2 4SP

+44(0) 208 450 6564 Phone & Fax
+44(0) 795 845 9446 Mobile

fran@gn.apc.org
www.homeopathyhelpline.com

Hon Secretary, Society of Homeopaths
f.treuherz@homeopathy-soh.org
www.homeopathy-soh.org

--
Francis Treuherz MA RSHom FSHom
Registered Homeopath
2 Exeter Road
London NW2 4SP

+44(0) 208 450 6564 Phone & Fax
+44(0) 795 845 9446 Mobile

fran@gn.apc.org
www.homeopathyhelpline.com

Hon Secretary, Society of Homeopaths
f.treuherz@homeopathy-soh.org
www.homeopathy-soh.org






         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Pim_12
         
karyn_t wrote:

> I have Mellel (just got it) and have not been able to get SBL
> Hebrew to work correctly with that program. I think I am
> confused about which language setting to have while using
> the program.

The thing you have to get used to in Mellel is the way it handles complicated mixtures of fonts and scripts via the "Main Font" and the "Secondary Font" (look in the palettes "Main Font & Style Variation" and "Secondary Font").

For instance, I have set up a character style which uses as the "main font" Gentium 13 pt, and as the "secondary font" SBL Hebrew 13 pt. When I type "Latin" text I use the US or the Dutch keyboard or "Input Method"; and when I want to indert something in Hebrew I just choose a Hebrew Input Method, like Hebrew-QWERTY (The main paragraph direction in my regular style is LtoR, BTW; fully Hebrew paragraphs can have dominant RtoL directionality, by setting up an appropriate paragraph style.)
So just by switching Input Methods (keyboards) you can instantly change font & writing direction.

Please read the Mellel Guide--a separate download which you may have overlooked (http://www.redlers.com/download/mellel/MellelGuide18.pdf.sit)--under the heading "Writing in Hebrew", p. 263ff.

Mellel's Styles may take some getting used to for people who have grown accustomed to Word's or AppleWorks' (or Nisus's, for that matter) way of doing things. Also the Main and Secondary Font feature may be obscure at first. But you'll get used to them soon enough, and appreciate they way they can speed up your work. I have found no easier way of handling multilingual texts.

Will get back on keyboard mappings in another msg.

Pim
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: karyn_t
         
Thanks for your help. I have played around more with Mellel and am now able to easily switch between the English and Hebrew. SBL Hebrew font is working ok in Mellel. I just have no keyboard map for it, so I am just working on trial and error until I fill one out to learn. If you have a keyboard map already, I would be grateful to receive it.

Thanks,
Karyn
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Pim_12
         
On the matter of Mac OS X and keyboards, John Hudson wrote:

> I'm not currently aware of any Unicode Biblical Hebrew
> keyboard drivers for the Mac, but I will look into what
> will be necessary to produce one that matches the
> Windows driver we developed for SBL.

As you probably know, these keyboard layout files are XML files, which can be edited in numerous ways, even with a text editor. Do you need copies? I can send them to you.

Current Apple IMs (Hebrew, and Hebrew-QWERTY) allow for the input of consonants, dagesh, vowels, shwa, the hatef combinations, maqqef, and ordinary punctuation marks, as well as numbers.

Teamim are not directly supported, although they may be picked from the system-wide Character Palette: I hope I have given the correct English term here; the thing is listed in the "Keyboard" or "Input Method" Menu in the right-hand part of the menu bar.
If the Character Palette is not active, go to System Preferences -> International -> Input Method tab, activate by checkmarking the desired item, quit System Preferences. You may have to log out and log back in again in order to make the new IM available.

karyn_t wrote:

> Using Word for Mac 2004 I am able to use SBL Hebrew
> in a right to left manner with the Hebrew QWERTY (or the
> regular Hebrew) language selected in my language
> preferences. However, the mapping is completely
> different than what is on the SBL site (and in the manual)
> and the nikud are not lining up correctly.

The nikud will not line up correctly in Word, as John wrote.

SBL *physical* keyboard mapping differs substantially from the Hebrew-QWERTY one. However, the text you input using the Hebrew-QWERTY IM will have the correct encoding. You should be able to input Hebrew properly (with SBL Hebrew as the chose font) with the Hebrew-QWERTY IM as the active one: qof is under the physical key Q, W gives sin/shin (dotless), E for `ayin, R for Resh, etc.

For now, if you need proper Hebrew text with _both_ vowels _and_ teamim, you need Mellel.

HTH,

Pim
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Thanks got the guide to Mellel, not sure who Redlers are, I shall now wait for Davka to send the Mellel and be back then, bye for now, Fran
         

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Posted by: 
         
This message has been deleted by the author.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Medorrhinum1
         
Progress. Linguists Software have produced an upgraded text of the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgart, with a font called New Jerusalem. It enables full Hebrew text with all the nekudot and trop and spaces in the right places! Microsoft Office 2004 and MacOSX 10.3.5. At last.

Now just waiting for Mellel.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: cgrebe
         

There is a discussion of all this on the Mellel yahoo group.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/redlex

It took me a while to get used to Mellel but I now have it working with the SBLHebrew font. I'm also using the SIL Keyboard on the mac (see discussion above) which is nice because I use the same keyboard at work on the PC.

 

Charles Grebe

         

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