Display of Directional Formatting characters

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Pim_12
         
Dear group,

How do you feel about the display of the Directional Formatting characters (U+202A..U+202E)? Currently, they are displayed *at all times* as arrows or double arrows. This is useful when you want to analyze text strings as such.

Consider, however, the need for proper BiDi display in an end-user situation: explicit display of such formatting characters should, IMHO, be an *option* in the OS [|in the app?] used, as is the case for space, tab, newline, and return characters generally.

I bumped into this issue when I tried to format an instruction document for typesetters outlining our requirements for page layout and encoding for a section of text containing mixed English-Greek-Hebrew (dominant paragraph direction: LtR), in which it was impossible to get correct display without using explicit Directional Formatting characters (U+202A..U+202E). (Admittedly, the app is Adobe InDesign ME v.2.0.2 [Mac OS X v.10.3.2]--and I still do not have access to Win XP and Word 2003 at the office, so I do not know if this is an issue at all on the Win OS.)

How do y'all feel about this? Should the display of Directional Formatting characters be an option handled by the OS, by the app, or in another way? Or should the SBL font *not* contain any outlines [/just a zero-width character] at code points U+202A..U+202E?

Cordially,

Pim Rietbroek
Brill Academic Publishers
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: KentSBL1
         

Pim has raised an interesting issue of a more technical nature and beyond my needs.  However, the way my font is set up in my XP system I always have the box bar (maybe the incorrect name) on the screen for English and Hebrew.  It is a bit of a nuisance but obviously I can move it around easily and probably hide it.

 

SBL does want to make the font useable for our publishing needs so I will be interested in the responses to Pim.

 

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         

The formatting characters should not be displayed at all times. This is an option in apps, and the default is usually for them to be off. In MS Word, for example, this is an option that you can toggle in the Options / Complex Scripts panel.

 

I think the application is the correct level for this option, since one wouldn't necessarily want to show control characters in all applications, but may have need sometimes to view them in a particular application, perhaps only temporarily. Of course, having a global option that could be over-ridden within individual applications would provide the best of both worlds. A matter for application and system developers, I'm afraid.

 

I'm loathe to remove the visual control character glyphs from the font, because they can be very useful at times, especially those that affect Hebrew rendering such as ZWJ.

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: twuandy
         

Pim,

I know the problem.  When I have mixed Greek Hebrew text I put an arrow at the right or end point of the string to show where to start reading.  Say the reader is to start at the right end, read the Hebrew, then he/she hits the Greek, reads left to right, then resumes Hebrew (if there's more) right to left.  The big, ugly Word left pointing arrow is placed at the right end pointing left.  I know nothing about OS and Mac.  I don't have a Unicode chart.  I use Word 2000 Hebrew enabled bought in Jerusalem, the last Word, I guess, before Unicode.  Now I want to change to Unicode, but I don't want to lose the advantages of Word Hebrew.

Andy

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Pim_12
         
Dear John,

Thank you for your reply. I guess I shall have to write to WinSoft--who make the ME versions of Adobe software--to ask them to provide the display/hide toggle in an update. Do you have a full list of the control characters that would qualify as candidates?

Does anyone on this list have a contact at Apple? It would be nice for Mac users if the Mac OS itself would allow programmers to use system hooks in order to provide their app with control over the display/hide toggle on the OS level.

Meanwhile, I have been able to effectively hide the Directional Formatting characters (U+202A..U+202E) in an InDesign ME file, and in the exported PDF file, by applying a different font to them (Lucida Grande). That is one more kludge typesetters will have to be made aware of.

Best,

Pim
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Pim_12
         
Hi Andy,

Thank you for your message. Others on this list will be better able to  advise you. For now: if I have read the documentation provided with the font correctly, you should upgrade to at least WinXP and Word 2003. But don't just take my word for it!  :-)

Pim
         

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