2 questions: (1) Holam + vav & (2) final kaf + qamats

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter
         

Hi out there.

 

I am still learning so these questions might be due to my ignorance but here goes...

 

(1) Holam + vav

I discovered this by accident with the following keystrokes:

"shift + o" ; "back arrow once" ; "w" ; "back arrow again"

i think what happens is that it does not render the vowel sign once the vav is created below it but then picks it up when you move over it (i also found if I just alt tabbed out and back from the application again it was fine)

Question: Should i be creating this another way??

 

(2) I have seen the final kaf written with the vowel sign qamats (05B8) occurring in the dagesh position ie above the baseline half way up. firstly i am not sure what this means (ie if it is different to final kaf + qamats, or written incorrectly) or how to reproduce it with SBL Hebrew other then with the qamats in the normal position at baseline

Question: Am i missing something??

 

Thanks so much

Peter Alkema

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         
1. The question of how to encode holam male and vav haluma has been much discussed on the Unicode Hebrew list and, recently, the Unicode Technical Committee voted to encode a new character: HOLAM HASER FOR VAV. This has not been finally approved yet, but it looks likely to be included in Unicode 4.1, which will be released early in the new year. I consider this a welcome development, which will greatly simplify the encoding of vav + holam combinations. I've been testing this with the upcoming beta font.

The bad news is that this encoding change will require not only a change in the font but also a change in texts: holam male will now be encoded as VAV + HOLAM, and the old holam+vav sequence you describe will no longer be supported. Vav haluma will be encoded as VAV + HOLAM HASER FOR VAV.

2. That is the default position for qamats when it follows final kaf, and this is how it should appear with SBL Hebrew if OpenType Layout is being correctly applied by your application. What operating system and application are you using?
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter
         

Hi John

 

Thanks for these interesting replies. On the 2nd one, I am using Word 2003 on Win XP Professional (version 5.1, Service Pack 1).

 

I went through the steps in the SBL Hebrew manual quite carefully to set up my regional and language settings. ie:

 

On R&L Options window:

-Languages Tab: "Install files for complex script and right-to-left languages" is checked

-Details: under installed services i have "HE Hebrew with Advanced Text Services :: Ink Correction and Keyboard :: Biblical Hebrew (SIL)"

 

On a point related to another topic on the board, although which I did not fully understand the response to, when I am in Word 2003 and I "Left-Alt + Shift" to change to Hebrew keyboard, it remains as left justified instead of what i would expect changing to right justified? should i expect it to or should i manually right justify like suggested?

 

Many many thanks for your kind assistance on this board as always.

 

Kindest Regards

Peter

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: 
         
This message has been deleted by the author.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         

You will need to set text direction and alignment manually in Word. Rather than using the justification controls, you should use the text direction buttons, which appear as little paragaph signs with arrows in the formatting toolbar: >¶ ¶<

I am attaching a screenshot that shows the correct positioning of qamats relative to the final kaf in SBL Hebrew. This is how it should. If you are seeing something else, perhaps you can post a screenshot, so I can diagnose the problem?

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter
         

Thanks John for your reply

 

Please find attached, I have included yours on the left for reference, which raises another question, both consonants also look very different to mine (which i hadn't noticed before even though I have all 4 keyboard layouts from the manual printed and laminated in A3 on the wall next to me for reference!!). So i have taken the liberty of including a screen shot of my settings in Control panel and the bar in Word indicating Hebrew. Perhaps i am doing something wrong in general???  Your help once again would be greatly appreciated!!!!

 

Thanks and Kind Regards

Peter.

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         
That typeface isn't SBL Hebrew, so there's your problem.

When you activate the Hebrew keyboard, Word will automatically switch to its default Hebrew font if you don't have a Hebrew font previously selected. You need to set the font to SBL Hebrew just as you would change between different Latin fonts (e.g. between Times New Roman and Arial) in the Word font menu.

Screenshot attached.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter
         

Done. Thanks John it looks all fine now -- my mistake, appreciate the assistance as always!!

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: Peter
         

Hi John

 

just one more thing for now -- i notice in your screen shot you were on 72 size font, when I set mine on the same it cuts off lamed, even if i double the line spacing.....?

 

see attached....

 

Thanks and kind regards

Peter Alkema

         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         
Yes, I'm not sure why this is. Some cantillation marks also get clipped. When I first saw it, many months ago, I presumed that there was a bug in the vertical metrics of the font, and went to fix it, but I can't find anything wrong: the metrics are as they should be. I'm pretty sure this is a Word problem, since it does not happen in Wordpad or Notepad.
         

[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: twuandy
         
Dear John,
I just got a note from unicode saying that no more suggestions for the next
version (Hebrew) will be accepted after March 1.  How are the changes for
the SBL font coming - namely the over circle and the overdot for
transcriptions of Dead Sea scrolls?  Using SP Atlantis is both inconvenient
and unsatisfactory for my needs.  Do I need to contact unicode?
Andrew


>From: "John Hudson"
>Reply-To: "SBL Fonts"
>To: "SBL Fonts"
>Subject: Re: 2 questions: (1) Holam + vav & (2) final kaf + qamats
>Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:05:21 -0800
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>get clipped. When I first saw it, many months ago, I presumed that there
>was a bug in the vertical metrics of the font, and went to fix it, but I
>can't find anything wrong: the metrics are as they should be. I'm pretty
>sure this is a Word problem, since it does not happen in Wordpad or
>Notepad.
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[ArchivePoster]

Posted by: John Hudson
         
Pim Rietbroek at Brill is testing a version of the font that supports DSS transcription using U+0307 and U+030A. This seems to be working well and will be available in the next release of the font.

The new holam makr for vav haluma has made it into Unicode 5.0, so it too will be supported in the next release.

I have a number of bugs to track down and fix, and want to add basic Latin support to fill out the MS Hebrew codepage, but the new version should be available fairly soon.
         

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