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Author Topic: Characters for textual apparatus  (Read 2646 times)
ArchivePoster
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« on: 2004-04-24, 03:46:00 »

Posted by: John Hudson
         
In the discussion of Furtive Patah, TWUAndy wrote:
 
And don't forget the Gothic letters used in BHS. We need two different
capital A's (one designates the Arabic version, one the Armenian*) , B for
Boharic* , two C's (one for Sahidic Coptic*, one for Cairo Geniza), G or
Septuagint, K for Coptic (Germans spell "Coptic" "Koptisch"), L (Old Latin),
M (Masoretic text), P (Palestinian Aramaic*) Q (Dead Sea Scrolls, Qumran),
two S's (Syriac Peshitta and Syrohexaplar*), T (Targum), V (Vulgate). The
ones marked with * are those used by Alan Brooke-Norman McLean in The Old
Testament in Greek, the Cambridge critical edition of Codex Vaticanus. Note
that BHS uses two capital A's that are almost identical, one for Arabic and
one for Ethiopic (Germans spell "Ethiopic" "Aethiopisch"). Before you do
all the work, verify that BHS Quinta are using the same sigla as BHS (the
two A's just mentioned is ridiculous, as is the fact that they were left
without a siglum for Armenian, so they had to write "Arm"), Furthermore B
for BHS is not "Boharic" but rather "Bomberg", the rabbinic Bible from 1525.
For the articles I do I'm using a hodge podge of the 14 free oldGerman
Gothic fonts downloadable gratis from the web. I pick and choose from the
fonts (mostly using Schwaben but also Black Forest and Gothenberg) the ones
that are most similar to the BHS font. If you need my handwritten chart
roughly showing the different styles tell me (but it doesn't come through
very clearly faxed).
 
The SBL Hebrew font per se will not contain these characters or others needed for textual apparatus, but we are also making a larger font that will contain these, in addition to both Hebrew and Greek support. I have not drawn the blackletter forms yet, but they will be in a schwabacher style similar to that used in BHS ... but nicer
 
I have spec'd the character set for the large font (SBL BibLit) to support all the symbols used in the textual apparatus of BHS and the Nestle-Aland NT. If anyone is working with editions that include textual apparatus symbols not included in these books, please let me know and I will see what I can do to add support for these symbols.
 
The SBL BibLit set also supports an extensive Latin character set, suitable for preparing scholarly text in all the major European languages using the Latin script, as well as supporting a number of different romanisation standards for Hebrew and Greek.
 
The planned sequence of font releases is as follows:
 
- SBL Hebrew beta 2, early summer
- SBL Greek beta, early summer (regular)
- SBL Greek beta, early-mid summer (italic)
- SBL Hebrew official release, November
- SBL Greek official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
- SBL BibLit beta, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
- SBL BibLit official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)

         
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ArchivePoster
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« Reply #1 on: 2004-04-24, 10:43:00 »

Posted by: Peter Kirk
         
On 23/04/2004 19:46, John Hudson wrote:

>     In the discussion of Furtive Patah, TWUAndy wrote:
>      
>     And don't forget the Gothic letters used in BHS. We need two different
>     capital A's (one designates the Arabic version, one the Armenian*)
>     , B for
>     Boharic* , two C's (one for Sahidic Coptic*, one for Cairo
>     Geniza), G or
>     Septuagint, K for Coptic (Germans spell "Coptic" "Koptisch"), L
>     (Old Latin),
>     M (Masoretic text), P (Palestinian Aramaic*) Q (Dead Sea Scrolls,
>     Qumran),
>     two S's (Syriac Peshitta and Syrohexaplar*), T (Targum), V
>     (Vulgate). The
>     ones marked with * are those used by Alan Brooke-Norman McLean in
>     The Old
>     Testament in Greek, the Cambridge critical edition of Codex
>     Vaticanus. Note
>     that BHS uses two capital A's that are almost identical, one for
>     Arabic and
>     one for Ethiopic (Germans spell "Ethiopic" "Aethiopisch"). ...
>

Some of the details here are mixed up, re BHS. The character for
"Aethiopisch" is supposed to be A with umlaut.

>     ...Before you do
>     all the work, verify that BHS Quinta are using the same sigla as
>     BHS (the
>     two A's just mentioned is ridiculous, as is the fact that they
>     were left
>     without a siglum for Armenian, so they had to write "Arm"),
>     Furthermore B
>     for BHS is not "Boharic" but rather "Bomberg", the rabbinic Bible
>     from 1525.
>     For the articles I do I'm using a hodge podge of the 14 free oldGerman
>     Gothic fonts downloadable gratis from the web. I pick and choose
>     from the
>     fonts (mostly using Schwaben but also Black Forest and Gothenberg)
>     the ones
>     that are most similar to the BHS font. If you need my handwritten
>     chart
>     roughly showing the different styles tell me (but it doesn't come
>     through
>     very clearly faxed).
>

All or most of the characters you need, in a similar style to BHS, are
included in the font SIL Apparatus (pre-Unicode), available from
http://www.sil.org/computing/catalog/show_software.asp?id=45.

>      
>     The SBL Hebrew font per se will not contain these characters or
>     others needed for textual apparatus, but we are also making a
>     larger font that will contain these, in addition to both Hebrew
>     and Greek support. I have not drawn the blackletter forms yet, but
>     they will be in a schwabacher style similar to that used in BHS
>     ... but nicer
>      
>     I have spec'd the character set for the large font (SBL BibLit) to
>     support all the symbols used in the textual apparatus of BHS and
>     the Nestle-Aland NT. If anyone is working with editions that
>     include textual apparatus symbols not included in these books,
>     please let me know and I will see what I can do to add support for
>     these symbols.
>      
>     The SBL BibLit set also supports an extensive Latin character set,
>     suitable for preparing scholarly text in all the major European
>     languages using the Latin script, as well as supporting a number
>     of different romanisation standards for Hebrew and Greek.
>

I hope you will also support Romanisation standards for other languages
of the ancient and modern Near East e.g. Arabic, Egyptian. In fact it
would be useful to have pretty much all of the precomposed Latin forms
in Unicode, on the assumption that these are mostly quite simple to put
together.

>      
>     The planned sequence of font releases is as follows:
>      
>     - SBL Hebrew beta 2, early summer
>     - SBL Greek beta, early summer (regular)
>     - SBL Greek beta, early-mid summer (italic)
>     - SBL Hebrew official release, November
>     - SBL Greek official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
>     - SBL BibLit beta, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
>     - SBL BibLit official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
>
Thanks for this useful information.

--
Peter Kirk
peter@qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/


         
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« Reply #2 on: 2004-04-24, 18:33:00 »

Posted by: twuandy
         
John,
A quick check of Nestle-Aland showed that there are only two Gothic signs
there: M for the "Majority Text" (you've got a difference right there from
its meaning in BHS!) and small p for "papyrus".  For the Gothic signs used
in Brooke-McLean, see The Old Testament in Greek, ed. Alan Brooke/ Norman
McLean, Volume I part I (Genesis), Cambridge, 1906, page vi bottom.  If you
can't get hold of the book, give me your address to get a zerox copy from me
mailed.  The sigla are very important, because the Dead Sea Scrolls variant
Hebrew text has made the examination of the various ancient sources and
their easy citation indispensable.  What's your estimation on the release
date - summer 2005? later?
TWUAndy

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« Reply #3 on: 2004-04-24, 18:42:00 »

Posted by: twuandy
         
I just received Peter's e-mail, with the note about the A with Umlaut.  In
the "Sigla et Compendia Apparatum" to my BHS, the umlaut adorning the A for
"Aethiopisch" is very unclear.  I still hold to my position that E is the
natural choice for "Ethiopic", as Brooke-McLean have it.  I haven't yet
tried the www.sil.org site, Peter.
TWUAndy

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« Reply #4 on: 2004-04-24, 20:56:00 »

Posted by: twuandy
         
Peter,
I downloaded the SIL fonts, but the characters aren't keyable as far as I
can tell.  And, as you admit, it's all pre-unicode.  The User's Guide has no
keyboard chart, and the instructions focus on an "Option" key, which I don't
have.  The font is keyed toward replicating the Greek NT apparatus, although
it does have the BHS Gothic sigla.
TWUAndy

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« Reply #5 on: 2004-04-25, 02:40:00 »

Posted by: John Hudson
         
TWUAndy, I'll send you my mailing address via e-mail, and would appreciate receiving a xerox of the sigla used in Brooke-McLean. I have to date catalogued the sigla in BHS, BHK, Nestle-Aland, and the GBS Vulgate. As you note, the same siglum may be used for different purposes in different editions, but thankfully this is not something that needs to concern me: I just need to make sure that the characters are in the fonts. I am checking with the editors of BHQ to confirm whether there are any new sigla in that edition.
 
I'm guessing that the beta version of the SBL BibLit font may be available before the end of this year, in which case the final release would likely be in the Spring of 2005. Thankfully, there is nothing ahead of me that is as complicated as the Hebrew turned out to be.
 
I agree that the umlauted A in the BHS apparatus is very unclear, even in the larger print edition. The SBL BibLit font will be better in this regard.

         
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« Reply #6 on: 2004-04-25, 20:12:00 »

Posted by: Peter Kirk
         
On 24/04/2004 18:40, John Hudson wrote:

> I have to date catalogued the sigla in BHS, BHK, Nestle-Aland, and the
> GBS Vulgate. ...


You may like to check the UBS Greek NT (4th edition). As far as I can
see, there are Latin and Greek letters, including some with diacritics
e.g. an H with dot below (transliteration of Georgian, p.28, and of
Ethiopic, p.55), plus a black letter capital P for papyrus, aleph
(symbol) for Sinaiticus and a dagger indicating a date of death. There
are also double square brackets.

--
Peter Kirk
peter@qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/


         
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« Reply #7 on: 2004-04-26, 19:47:00 »

Posted by: John Hudson
         
Thanks, Peter. I have Metzger's textual commentary for the UBS Greek NT, but have not checked the apparatus in the edition.

         
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« Reply #8 on: 2004-04-27, 04:16:00 »

Posted by: twuandy
         
Today I sent to you, John, the table of signs that accompanies BHS and is
not complete, the page zeroxed from The Old Testament in Greek showing the
Brooke-McLean signs and a chart I worked up comparing the two systems and
supplying a combined sign list (all the sigla are zeroxed from the sources
and pasted in).  The chart has one sign from The Old Testament in Greek that
is not on the enclosed Brooke-McLean page, a C that was added by
Brooke-Mclean in the Chronicles volume to signify "Chronicles-Ethiopic".
Andy

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« Reply #9 on: 2004-07-09, 19:31:00 »

Posted by: Ken Penner
         
John Hudson wrote:

"I have spec'd the character set for the large font (SBL BibLit) to support
all the symbols used in the textual apparatus of BHS and the Nestle-Aland
NT."

I am involved in preparing online critical texts of the Pseudepigrapha, and
would like to know which codepoints you are using for the N-A symbols that
mark the location of textual variants in the main text (e.g., something like
a high down tack, superscripted s and reversed superscripted s, etc.).

Also, is the following schedule still accurate?

- SBL Hebrew beta 2, early summer
- SBL Greek beta, early summer (regular)
- SBL Greek beta, early-mid summer (italic)
- SBL Hebrew official release, November
- SBL Greek official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
- SBL BibLit beta, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)
- SBL BibLit official release, not scheduled yet (regular and italic)

         
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« Reply #10 on: 2004-07-09, 21:21:00 »

Posted by: Peter Kirk
         
On 09/07/2004 19:31, Ken Penner wrote:
>
>    ...
>
>     John Hudson wrote:
>
>     "I have spec'd the character set for the large font (SBL BibLit) to
>     support
>     all the symbols used in the textual apparatus of BHS and the
>     Nestle-Aland
>     NT."
>
>     I am involved in preparing online critical texts of the
>     Pseudepigrapha, and
>     would like to know which codepoints you are using for the N-A
>     symbols that
>     mark the location of textual variants in the main text (e.g.,
>     something like
>     a high down tack, superscripted s and reversed superscripted s, etc.).

A set of 13 NT punctuation characters has been provisionally accepted
for Unicode at code points 2E00-2E0C. See
http://www.unicode.org/alloc/Pipeline.html and
http://www.tlg.uci.edu/final/nt.sigla.pdf. I trust that the SBL font
will follow these Unicode allocations, at least as soon as they are
finalised.

--
Peter Kirk
peter@qaya.org (personal)
peterkirk@qaya.org (work)
http://www.qaya.org/

         
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« Reply #11 on: 2004-07-10, 01:31:00 »

Posted by: John Hudson
         
Hello Ken,

I'm a bit behind schedule, but should have a new Hebrew beta around the end of this month and the first Greek soon after. The Greek will probably be tested internally, by us and by members of the SBL Font Foundation, before it is made more widely available, so you can expect it a bit later in the summer.

J.
         
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« Reply #12 on: 2004-07-10, 01:35:00 »

Posted by: John Hudson
         
Yes, Peter, we'll be using the new Unicode allocations for NT critical symbols. I believe the assignments are close to being finalised; at least, I'm not aware of any reason why they would change, but I've been surprised in the past. [Sometimes, I wonder if UTC change things at the last minute just to press home the message that one shouldn't base software on un-finalised standards.]
         
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